The So-Called False Rape Society Attacks Me (Update: Apology to Paul Elam!)

False rape is worse than a free rapist?

From the False Rape Society

 

[Update! I have apologized to Paul Elam. When I searched the domain names of the MRA sites I am writing about, I must have confused one of Elams other domains, such as register-her.com, for the FRS site. A sincere apology to Mr. Elam is in order! I will edit this article to reflect that, and leave a record of this mistake in this post.]

This was getting cluttered and confusing, so I moved all updates to the bottom of the original post. Thanks!
————————-

I decided to create a Google alert today to find out which of my articles people are talking about and what they’re saying, a tip I read up on on another blog. The first alert it sent me is a doozy. I’ll get to that.

I had stumbled upon one of these atrocious pits of misogyny, the False Rape Society(FRS), a group that insists that it wants to help men who are falsely accused of rape. However, upon closer examination, the first clue of the illegitimacy of this claim is that the FRS is closely affiliated with such sites as “The Happy Misogynist”, “A Voice for Men”, and other sites dedicated to tearing female-bodied persons down and trying to erase their rapes and very existence as survivors. [See updates at the bottom for a lot more info on these sites, their ties, what they say.]

Don’t forget this winner, the MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) Forums, featuring the article “A Tale of Two Skanks” on the front page. These are people who celebrate domestic violence and rape. Scum. This site is directly linked to register-her.com[owned by Paul Elam who owns the FRS domain], the site which publicly prints women’s information in an attempt to invoke violence upon them, which I told you about in this article.

The False Rape Society site also explicitly states that rape victims are not victims until the government says so, and painstakingly scours the internet for any articles that can cast women who are raped as liars, one and all, thus feeding into these insecure rape-apologists’ fantasies about who women are.

So I dropped a little comment, just a quick drive-by hoping to agitate them into seeing what I’ve said about MRAs in the past, maybe get a few of them to pull their heads out of their asses. I said this:

My theory is that there are five of you guys in real life, and you salivate for the day that domestic violence and rape are legal. You do have a mother, you know.

(Since not one of the MRAs seems to understand this quote, I will disambiguate: the “five guys” I was talking about aren’t false rape accusees; I am talking here about the FRS administrators/writers/owners. And when I say he has a mother, I mean, who the fuck can believe this garbage about their own mothers, sisters, friends, co-workers? Well, these guys.)

The False Rape Society decided to cling onto this comment, I speculate because I used my real name. These cowards, who are anonymous actors and do not list any actual contact information, have the guts to print my name–but not their own? We are dealing with some real heroes for the movement here, folks!

They make a nice little post which prints my name twice, before unleashing their little man-babies to make whine about it. And when I saw this in my Google alert and went to their page, I was flabbergasted. Were these guys actually printing my name and attacking me, without printing their own names? Do these men always act anonymously, even though they are willing to print the information of women and men who dare to oppose them? They do.

So I wrote this response, as calmly as I could, face still fresh from palm [I've cleaned up a couple of typos, I was really pissed when I wrote this]:

The False Rape Society decided to cling onto my comments because, unless unlike most of their patrons, I have the courage to use my real name. The False Rape Society, a group of men who have a fetish for obsessing over the anomalies of false rape accusation–and leverage these legitimate false accusations in order to undermine the ability of females to have their rapes taken seriously–decided to print my name in a thinly veiled attempt to gin up animosity toward me.

But, if it is animosity that the False Rape Society wishes to gin up against me, I welcome it. You see, the FRS is associated with and linked to such puerile and trashy woman-hating groups as A Voice for Men (not a voice for me), register-her.com (which I’ve written about, a site which indiscriminately publishes women and men‘s information to the public in an attempt to intimidate and silence critics), and sites like “the Happy Misogynist.”

FRS takes a very serious and very real issue, false rape accusation, and instead of trying to build a better life for men, they try to destroy women. So it is indeed that you are a very small voice, because you do not represent all of us men, and you do indeed salivate, in fact have an unending and unquenchable thirst, for the day when you have succeeded in undermining public confidence in women to the degree that sexual violence is not just the norm, as it is today, but the law.

If these rape-apologists piss you off as much as me, then please feel free to hit up the article that attacks me and let them know what you think of them. That is, if you feel safe doing so. We are talking about a predator-advocacy group**.

*Correction: I failed to understand the point of this blurb from an article on FRS: “I hate to say ‘you were asking for it,’ but . . . you were asking for it! If you get intimate with someone who can hurt you, then you have only yourself to blame when you get hurt.” The quote is actually a way for the FRS to claim that there is a double standard in false accusation. (They cleverly elevate the deceptive phrases to get you to strongly respond, and embed the “we’re against victim-blaming” stuff later in the article, in finer print. The weasel is strong with these ones…) Then they emailed me and called me an asshole moonbat and said that radical feminists are smug, with more smugness than I’ve ever been spoken to with in my life. They also refuse to print my follow-up comments on their blog. In effect, they refuse to engage—they can only sling mud and run. These guys are incredible.

**This remark regards the process by which FRS vets, or rather does NOT vet, the men they advocate for and give a platform on the blog. After all, how exactly does the FRS decide which of the men that frequent their site are actually guilty of sexual violence? I’ve asked them a few times, to no avail.

Just for fun, here’s Paul’s someone at FRS’s latest email to me:

P.S. Ben, if you ever want to really talk about these issues, in a serious way, great. (I’ve just clarified that post you mischaracterized even more by quoting one of our old posts on this very issue — you really know nothing about my blog, do you?) But you attacked us this morning like some kind of idiot, so I had to put you in your place. Marc A who responded on that thread is a big time California lawyer who’s Mr. MRA — man, you even got his attention, that’s how nasty your comment was. And then you seemed all pissed when I dismiss you. You want to get serious about these issues, great — if you treat the issues respectfully, and don’t disparage our motives, I’d even consider removing my post and engaging in a serious dialogue with you. I personally doubt that you know enough about the area. Until then, I am not taking your emails.

And my response:

You are so funny, Paul[NOT Paul!]. You think you win? It’s a game, Paul? A big-time lawyer, man–you are just the king of the world! Awww, I’m so sad :( Hope you don’t sic your big mean legal team on me…
Yes, I read your blog. It is a collection of articles from other places and some stuff you wrote, justifying the idea that we should assume that women are liars until they can prove their case. If you understood anything about rape crisis and domestic violence in relation to the police and courts, you would know that from the time a woman is raped until her rapist is sentenced–if, by slim chance, they are–that woman faces a devastation that no falsely accused person ever experiences. You don’t know what rape is like, do you Paul?Nor do I.I do know that I’d rather be in jail than raped, though being in jail increases one’s likelihood of being raped exponentially. Why aren’t you helping those men? They need an advocate more than anyone. It is so strange to me that you defend people who have been–supposedly–falsely accused of rape (happened to me once, and I didn’t have no fancy-pants lawyer to cover my ass either,) but not murder or any crimes where a woman is not involved.

And the community of blogs you are part of is well-known to me. Paul, you are not fooling me. I didn’t just wake up today and discover Men’s Rights Assholes.

Look, legitimate men’s advocacy organizations are fantastic. More of that. But organizations–if that’s what your group can be called, do you employ anyone at all?–like yours are dedicated to pushing one idea and one idea only: all rapes are women crying wolf until proven otherwise. How do you vet your clients? Do you believe all the men who come to you?

Paul, you are not a men’s rights advocate. You advocate your own resentment of women. Please, reconsider your blog and think about shutting it down, for the sake of all people. You think the world is better off with rapists walking free than falsely accused men in jail? I think both are fucked up, and should be stopped. That is the difference between us. You fight for the former.

Updates: I searched domain owners regarding the FRS and it matches the name in my comments section, Paul Elam, who also owns register-her.com; I’m currently trying to find out what other domains he owns. I suspect he may own the Happy Misogynist Youtube account, but I’m not sure yet. Update: the Happy Misogynist lists http://www.avoiceformen.com as its website. So you see where this is going; this is a small network of obsessed men. The sidebar for the Happy Misogynist profile says it all.[As updated above, it turns out that Paul Elam authors the Youtube incarnation of the Happy Misogynist. Thanks Lovin the BE!] According to it…“It was men, after all, that brought the environment under control so that women could safely move about and go make money. It was also men that saw the justice in allowing women to vote, own land, become educated and pursue gainful employment, with or without a man. So it was men that did the natural and just thing by handing women their equal status[...]since it was men who paid the real price so that women could walk out of that cave, a simple thank you would have been an appropriate response. Instead, by and large, women spit on us as they exited. And many of them continue to do so until this day… “

Update, Dec 10: Let’s review: It turns out, I seem to have actually overestimated the number of people who run these sites. It appears that it can all be traced to one Paul Elam, owner of the False Rape Society and register-her domains, as well as the abandoned Happy Misogynist Blogspot account and the currently active the Happy Misogynist on Youtube. (And now we’ve found another site that Elam contributes to, the Good Men Project.)

Update: special thanks to reader Lovin the BE for discovering Paul Elam’s old blog, the Happy Misogynist on Blogspot, which can be found in its Youtube incarnation here, thus providing us with evidence that Elam knowingly lied when he said that the Happy Misogynist doesn’t exist:
PaulElamFalseClaimNumberBillion

Paul Elam of FRS: the Happy Misogynist

I’ve also found another of Paul’s affiliated contributed-to sites, the Good Men Project, which is more of the same drivel [regarding Elam's writings]–it seems the only way Paul thinks you can make men look good is by making women look bad. The number of sites we’ve identified as belonging to Paul Elam or that he contributes to now number 5[4]. [MRAs seem not to understand the point of identifying sites that Elam has written for; I'm not claiming GMP is an MRA site. I'm hoping to expose Elam and his allies' ideology and ties both friendly and unfriendly, in the hopes that sites like GMP will stop providing Elam a platform. Even if the goal of GMP featuring Elam's writings is to provide a counter-point, it is still wrong to present Elam's ideology as a legitimate viewpoint. It's analogous to a gay issues blog letting Bryan Fischer provide "counter-point" commentary.]

(You can email Paul at falserape@yahoo.com and at avoiceformen@yahoo.com. He may also still use his Happy Misogynist email at thehappymisogynist@yahoo.com. We also know he resides in Houston, TX. Expose the networks for the world to see!)

Update: Below in the comments, Paul Elam claims he never emailed me. Here are screenshots of his false claim followed by the emails he sent me. I can forward these emails to any interested party:[this is removed because these emails were not from Paul!]

Update number billion: And here I want to give an example of the type of culture that MRAs are fostering. This is a story about rape in the U.S. military, and a typical example of what a woman who is raped faces: Kate Weber: “I first tried reporting the rape to my staff sergeant, he told me to be quiet and not tell anyone. So then I tried to tell a woman sergeant, who was beneath him, because I thought she’d be more sympathetic. She just cursed me for jumping the chain of command and not coming to her first. I went to the doctor, who did at least make a record of it, but he did nothing. I also told my ‘battle buddy’, a fellow female soldier. She said, ‘I know that guy. He’s married and he would never do such a thing. You’re a liar and a slut.’ Before long, I was being called a whore and a bitch by everyone. The guys were warning each other: ‘This one will accuse you of rape, so stay away from her.’ I was 18 years old, it was the first time I had ever been away from home. I had no idea what to do.”

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135 thoughts on “The So-Called False Rape Society Attacks Me (Update: Apology to Paul Elam!)

  1. YOHAN says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168295/It-happened–I-wrongly-jailed-rape.html

    An excellent summery of a suffering of a man, accused AND convicted because of a false rape allegation.

    Luckily his family supported him, and paid 10000s of USD for private investigation and his defense. And what happened with the accuser telling lies?

    Nothing… as usual

    How can anybody, who is claiming to be a feminist, deny or ignore such a justice, claiming feminism is about equality?

    • Ben Fenton says:

      Wow. How many billions of times will you ignore everything I have said here, concerning the injustice of false rape accusation? Read the article. Read the comments. I’m almost done with you idiots.

  2. YOHAN says:

    MRAs cannot discuss about rape and remain silent about false rape allegations.

    False rape allegations do exist and only an ignorant can deny that.

    A false rape allegation should be a felony and should be punished with a long jail-term to make it clear to our society that such crimes are not funny for the male victim.

    If false rape allegations are frequent or rare is irrelevant.

    To commit a ‘rare’ crime is no valid argument to ask for lenient punishment.

  3. gateman says:

    According to feminists, false-rape accusations don’t exist. In fact one of their famous catchphrases is “All men are rapists”. Do you like being called a rapist Ben?

    I dont want to live in a culture where a woman need only point at a man and he will be jailed.
    FRS simply exists to remind us that some women can and do lie, and that it’s by no means rare.

    I have been active on MGTOW and MRA sites for 5 years and NEVER EVER have I heard of any man supporting or promoting rape. Many of the men on these sites are in fact happily married (I believe Paul Elam falls into that category).

    Here is just a sample of the hundreds of PROVEN false rape cases reported in the Daily Mail over the last few years. Often its only by luck or her eventual confession that the truth finally came out. I wonder how many innocent men are in jail now? Doesn’t it concern you that so many women feel they can get away with making false accusations?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322426/Alan-Newton-cleared-rape-awarded-18-5m-compensation.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369536/Fury-woman-cried-rape-sparking-major-police-hunt-handed-80-penalty-notice.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196362/Policemans-daughter-cried-rape-night-ex-lover.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348018/Cry-rape-Emma-Blunden-21-jailed-2-years-false-claims-4-men.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1275643/Mother-jailed-making-false-gang-rape-claims–win-lover.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1010364/Schoolgirl-escapes-prosecution-false-rape-claim.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1356052/Female-chaplain-false-rape-claim-Catholic-priest-relationship-ended.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1292055/Student-jailed-rape-claim-invented-extension-course-work.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-460743/Woman-false-rape-claim-jailed-months.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1049854/X-Factor-girl-false-rape-claim-ex-fiance-walks-free-court.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1287534/Innocent-Warren-Blackwell-served-3-years-false-rape-claim-fantasist.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1046530/Woman-jailed-making-false-rape-claim-family-row-night-out.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233233/Love-cheat-texted-husband-say-raped-felt-guilty-infidelity.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197032/Cry-rape-woman-tied-self-stuffed-tights-mouth-fake-attack.html

    • Ben Fenton says:

      How’s that straw man treating ya? :) Look, by treating feminists as a monolith, you have demonstrated that you are only willing to look at things through a juvenile, capricious lens of confirmation bias and two-dimensional analysis. I’ve heard some of the more extreme claims, such as “all men are rapists.” Yet, I go to events like Take Back The Night and I look around at all of the rape survivors and all of the men sitting in that room, listening to histories and stories of hope and survival–and not one of those women think that all men are rapists. So, while somewhere on the interwebz I’m sure you can dig up some example by someone, somewhere, saying that there is no such thing as false rape accusation, you are excluding the absolute majority of feminist thought.

      You don’t need to prove to me that false rape accusation exists. But even the Kanin study that is widely cited by MRAs states in the introduction, “These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.

      Let’s note two major things here: one, no mention of feminists. Two, it definitively states that, and I repeat, “False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration…but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.” Despite your best efforts, you cannot distort what this study cites: that false rape accusation is a product of individualities, not a pattern of institutional and social repression! There is no such thing as false rape culture.

      If a woman says she’s been sexually assaulted, both parties deserve their due process. This means that allegations should be taken seriously. There is nothing worse in the eyes of a feminist or her ally than the false accuser, because it gives ignorant people like you, who don’t know how to interpret your own data, ammunition in the war against female power. You deny to this day that rape culture exists. That is proof enough that you refuse to recognize the realities that everyday female-bodied persons live. The reality is rape culture and you are an accomplice to its continuation. That doesn’t make you a rapist. It just makes you their unwitting assistant.

      • gateman says:

        I repeat – I have never come across any man that condoned rape of women anywhere, in person or online. If there was a rape-culture, surely I would have seen some of it. No?

        Rapists are dealt with very severely by the courts, usually more severely than violent assaults such as shootings and stabbings. Even sexual harassment is dealt with severely with sacking, humiliation of the perpetrator and vast victim compensation payouts.
        Does that sound like we live in a “rape-culture” ?

        Contrast that with the rape of men in prisons which is seen as a source of comedy. and totally accepted. We all know men cant be victims right?
        A “male-rape” culture certainly appears to exist.

        “All men are rapists” I quote as an extreme example of feminist doctrine that permeates its way from academics and literature down through the culture. Its part of the general demonization of men feminists promote.

        Today men arent allowed to sit next to children on planes, are viewed suspiciously if playing with kids in the playground, and are by default viewed as guilty rapists if a woman points the finger. Guilty until proven innocent, and even then some of the mud sticks. Look at Julian Assange. Do you think he’s a rapist?

        “False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration…but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.”

        Are you kidding me? You are excusing the false rape accuser that destroys a mans life?
        Oh the poor women cant control their emotions. Is that your opinion of women?

        Read the links – many of the accusers were covering up their affairs, were getting back at lovers, or had other pre-meditated, callous motives like revenge. But you make excuses and don’t want them to be held accountable. Wow!

        Women kill their husband in his sleep, cut off his penis, etc and get a slap on the wrist and people like you out of some misguided chivalry defend them because they are poor widdle women “coping with stressful situations”.

        That attitude is what we MRAs are fighting against. We want equality, accountability and fairness for all. Shining a light of false-rape accusers is a wake-up call for the indoctrinated masses who think women can do no wrong.

        There are a large number of impulsive accusations that are quickly exposed in the initial investigations and we never get to hear about them. Perhaps thats where the 40% false accusations figures come from.

        There is most certainly a culture of demonization of men and women-as-victims.
        Open your eyes – its everywhere. You cant pick up a newspaper, watch a CSI or medical drama without seeing it.

        References:

        A study in India found 18% of rape accusations are false and are often “coached.”
        http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/18_rape_cases_false_Study/articleshow/3910217.cms

        The U.S. Air Force study found 60% of rape accusations were false and the most common reasons for false rape accusations were: (1) spite or revenge; (2) feelings of guilt or shame; or, (3) to cover up an affair. Mental illness also played a role. McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. “False Allegations.” Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.

        • nowar123 says:

          I don’t know anyone who thinks all men are rapists either, Ben. In fact, the phrase comes from a fictional radical feminist character in the 1977 novel ‘The Women’s Room’ by Marilyn French. I’d never even heard it until I started reading MRA websites and still have never heard it outside the MRM.

        • gateman says:

          This lady tells it better than anyone.

          • Ben Fenton says:

            Cool. You can’t even make arguments of your own. We should all bow to this argument from authority that you’ve made, wherein the poster cites no research, makes strings and strings of claims, but backs them up with absolutely nothing. You will forgive me if I don’t drop everything to change my views based on a Youtube video.

            You guys have 24 hours to make any more comments, because daddy is tired from playing with the children in this thread and needs a nap.

            PS Don’t post garbage videos in my threads or you will be banned. Arguments from authority are not respected here.

            • gateman says:

              And yet you fail to address ANY of the arguments I make or that are mentioned in the video. Instead your attack me and threaten to ban me. Typical of a feminist ideologue. Don’t worry I wont be coming back and you can continue to live in your make-believe world.

              • That’s not a person named David in the video. You haven’t made any arguments worth rebutting, you’ve instead chosen someone else to do it for you. So don’t piss yourself.

  4. Paul Elam says:

    LOL, just one more tidbit of information for you there, Bucko. Just so you know, The False Rape Society is not my website. I have never posted an article there (though the owners have linked to some of them).

    I founded and run A Voice for Men, and have never emailed you. You are totally confused. I didn’t bother to correct you on all this the last time I was here, but I see you were over at Marcotte’s blog telling people that the FRS site was mine, and that we had an email exchange. I love the FRS site, but I don’t play any role over there.

    You are dishonest, unobservant, or really fucking stupid – or all three.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      Hi Paul! Well, first I have to say that I owe you no uncertain apology for mistaking you for the other folks at FRS. The mistake was a big one, and I accept responsibility for it. I will edit the article appropriately and notify my readers of the mistake.

      It’s unfortunate that you did not point out the difference to me when you had the opportunity to do so, but either way I am responsible for the mistake.

      I will save further analysis of your work for another article. Until then, Paul!

  5. wissler says:

    The moment you tried to link Paul Elam to The Good Men Project you lost all credibly. They are ideologically and diametrically opposed.
    The Good Men Project was founded by a group of well know feminists with the intention of pretending to be mens rights advocates, while actually spouting feminist doctrine. Essentially its a false flag operation meant to distract and confuse casual readers. Its true that Paul Elam has written a few articles for them but only to offer a counterpoint to the prevailing attitude of misandry and submission.

    Lets be blunt, you’ve just wandered into a whole section of the blogosphere you never even knew existed, you’re in over your head, and you have know idea who’s connected to who, or whats going on.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      Click the link to Paul’s writings for the site. Compare the fact that I have identified Paul Elam as a contributor to GMP to the outright lies that Elam has been caught pushing on this blog. Credibility? Mine is not in question. Men’s Rights Assholes are nothing new to me, no matter how many times you say otherwise.
      “Its true that Paul Elam has written a few articles for them but only to offer a counterpoint to the prevailing attitude of misandry and submission.” So you admit that Elam is indeed connected to GMP–he has written posts to their site. How does this undermine my credibility again? You guys keep trying the same shifty tricks. And I keep smashing the illusions.

      • wissler says:

        You’re living in a bizarre little fantasy world.
        If Fox News interview Obama, does that make him a republican?

        Looking at your past posts, you seem to have stumbled onto manboobz recently, and now consider yourself an expert on the entire mens rights movement. It takes more than a few sarcastic articles to understand an entire movement, but you obviously don’t want facts to get in the way of a good rant.
        Heres something you might like explain. You claim GMP is “affiliated” with Paul Elam because he has written a few articles for them… I’d like to point out that David Futrelle (the author of the manboobz site you like so much) has also written articles for GMP. (go look it up.)
        So by following your logic manboobz must be “affiliated” with Paul Elam. right ??

        You have no idea whats going on, you have no idea who is who or what is what. You’re like a child thrashing around in the dark, lashing out at imaginary monsters.
        You’re completely clueless.

        It’s amusing to watch, but I certainly hope no one actually listens to anything you say.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          You are really hung up on the word “affiliated.” My goal is to make clear that if you hold these beliefs about women, I will out you to any groups, employers or persons who will hold you accountable for those beliefs. The GMP may not be an official employer of Elam, but if they or any organization knows the sick and disturbed ideology that Elam holds, my hope is for them to disassociate with him altogether and relegate him to the annals of fallen patriarchs, where he belongs.

          I think that the less conspiratorially-minded and more critical of people will see how weak your arguments are here. Nothing you have said disputes the fact that the salient manifestation of the men’s rights movement functions not to make life better for men, but to make rape culture more impenetrable and rape easier to access.

          You keep repeating the same lines, but if you had properly researched the material on my blog, you would notice that I have a category called, “Men’s Rights Idiots.” Click on the category. Men’s Rights Assholes have made me sick for a long time. I first read about their disgusting ideology on blogs like Pharyngula, years ago when I moved to Portland, OR. Until I saw offensive sites like register-her.com outing public information of and creating entire mythologies for women that they hate, I saw no reason to dedicate time and energy to the dismantling of the MRM.

          The problem with you is that you do not understand what I am doing here or why. My motivation is in the principles and values which I hold. Your argument is that I am “new” to the MRAs. But I have known misogyny and men like these my entire life. No one needs to be an expert on this manifestation of masculism to know how revolting it is. So your claim, that only a person with a degree in the Knowledge of Worthless Assholes can make a proper critical assessment of MRAs, is very weak. According to your logic, only a person with a political science degree should be able to write about politics–or could even have knowledge of it in the first place. No, I have read the materials, I know the motivations of my opponents.

          Do I need to be Paul Elam to write about this disgusting “movement” of man-babies who are threatened by all power female? According to you, yes.

          This is typical thinking for a frightened misogynist, and if what I’m doing weren’t having an effect, you wouldn’t be trying every weak argument that you can think of and every weak insult that you think will deter me from exposing this sadistic group of basement-dwellers for what they are.

          The FRS is not a legitimate men’s advocacy group. A real men’s advocacy group would be dedicated to helping men improve their lives and fight against injustice in the courtroom and in society. But the FRS and its ilk are bent on hurting women, disempowering them, make rape easier to access and easier to get away with.

          • Wilma says:

            “The FRS is not a legitimate men’s advocacy group. A real men’s advocacy group would be dedicated to helping men improve their lives and fight against injustice in the courtroom and in society. But the FRS and its ilk are bent on hurting women, disempowering them, make rape easier to access and easier to get away with.

            Go take your meds and shut up.

          • wissler says:

            Wow, you’re just so full of hate.

            Well I’m off now, you’ve motivated me to make a donation to register-her.com.

            Any site that pisses you off that much, must be worth supporting.

            P.S. Here’s a tip for the future, if anyone ever uses the phrase “A few sammies short of a picnic”, they’re probably talking about you Ben!

          • Lovin the BE says:

            Ben,

            There is a “Boob Roll” in the right column of the Man Boobz site that has a list of the various blogs that make up the little webring of MRM sources. I don’t think that, overall, the GMP has much respect for the MRM or Paul Elam.

            • Ben Fenton says:

              Lovin,
              The point of displaying Paul Elam’s contributions to the GMP is the hope that the GMP will realize that Paul Elam is not a serious writer and should not be given a platform to define opposition stances; sort of like if Bryan Fischer was writing polemic contributions for a gay news organization, I would want the organization in question to revoke that platform because Fischer is not a serious contender. Like Elam, Fischer is a gasbag of hatred for his ideology and should not be given a platform anywhere for any reason. Thanks!

              • Lovin the BE says:

                Yeah, I completely agree with this. He’s a nut trying to create a hysteria that all women want men dead among other things. I suspect that most of his readers are like me…just keeping up with a hate group in order to be aware. Thanks for writing about them.

  6. Wilma says:

    Ben,

    You’re an asshole.

  7. zarko says:

    Also, the FRS does not provide legal advice other than: get a competent lawyer. I am not sure why you suggest that sites that help the falsely accused should do so.

    It is INCREDIBLY dangerous to provide “free” legal advice to anyone, online or not. Following such advice can be a horrible move that can lead to much more trouble. Whether you are falsely accused, or have a grievance, get an actual bloody lawyer that knows what he/she is doing.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      I think I responded to this further below. But I am positive that attorneys giving free legal advice is not inherently bad. FRS does not provide such services as their goal, as I have repeatedly stated, is not to make a better life for the falsely accused, but to disseminate anti-female and anti-feminist propaganda. I’m all for propaganda when it’s identified as such, but pretending it is something legitimate to help people is in poor taste.

      • zarko says:

        It is legitimate, and it does help. We have daily stories from the families of people falsely accused (and the falsely accused themselves), about how FRS gave them hope. A lot of the commenters are women as well. Much like a rape ruins one life and negatively affects many, a false rape accusation ruins one life, and negatively affects many as well.

        You might have a point about providing free legal advice, which sometimes commenters have done, but in general FRS is not doing so.

        The reason is rather simple, and it deals with varying jurisdictions, not just state-to-state but country to country. You NEED a local lawyer, because even the tiniest mistake can have huge repercussions. Most men falsely accused are minorities and immigrants, so the knowledge gap is immense, and inherently representing yourself is a mistake that anyone would acknowledge.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          I question how the FRS vets the people they advocate for. It seems to me that they must simply assume the innocence of all men that come to them.

          That is not my primary beef with the FRS. It is the ideology that they struggle to keep latent (and not very well, I might add.) They present themselves as something they are not. The main function of this organization is to disseminate biased stories and propaganda that point to one conclusion and one conclusion only: women cannot be trusted, therefore any protections in the law or our culture that women have gained in the past century should be rolled back. They are part of a wider network whose goal seems to be only to make rape easier to access and more difficult to be accountable for.

  8. zarko says:

    FRS mostly provides links to stories. I fail to see how links of actual news websites result in FRS condoning all those misogynistic actions you list against them.

    In fact, most of your argument stems from websites linked from the main FRS page. This is a very poor way to attack FRS itself.

    Also, your statement of:
    ———
    The False Rape Society site also explicitly states that rape victims are not victims until the government says so.
    ———

    This is correct, unless you believe that an accusation is equal to a conviction. I will not characterize you as a person that believe that atrocity, but for those of us that immigrated from systems where it was so, it is a very important statement. I can’t speak for other immigrants, but we didn’t come to NAmerica/Western Europe simply to make money. We could do it anywhere, and most of us did. We mostly came because the justice system supposedly works, and we thought that the guilty are in prison and the innocent are not. We came for the freedoms and basic rights that should be guaranteed to all by the bill of rights.

    As for another one of your paragraphs:
    ———
    Correction: I failed to understand the point of this blurb

    they can only sling mud and run. These guys are incredible.
    ———

    This is correct. For a simple reference, read about the Hofstra false rape accusation. Countless (and I do mean countless) bloggers, writers, etc chanted in unison that the victims of the Hofstra hoax, the four minority males thrown in jail, deserved it. It was their fault. It’s as disgusting as saying a woman was to blame for the rape. But of course, you knew that, right?

    Now, as for the attacks against you personally, I disagree with them all. No matter what your opinion is, it’s fine, I will argue against that.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      “This is correct, unless you believe that an accusation is equal to a conviction.” So therefore rapists who aren’t convicted aren’t rapists, and women whose rapists aren’t convicted aren’t rape survivors. This is the reasoning that makes me question supporters of the FRS and the (salient) Men’s Rights/Pick-Up Artists/Men Going Their Own way community.

      • zarko says:

        I think this is the main problem people have with you, Ben. I stated that an accusation is not a conviction, and you then turn it around saying that I believe convicted rapists are not rapists.

        FRS states, stated, and will keep stating that it does not support, in any way, convicted rapists. You would be hard-pressed to find a single post-conviction article supporting anyone, unless the conviction was over-turned.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          Like I said, you seem to believe that if a person escapes conviction, the only reason could be that they are innocent. In essence you have said conviction=rape. But rape comes before accusation, conviction or acquittal. I do not believe that a rape survivor has only been raped if the state says so.

          If the justice system is dysfunctional, it is not the fault of female persons. But FRS seems intent on conveying the message that it is.

  9. Wilma says:

    Ben,

    You’re an asshole.

  10. Ben Fenton says:

    All right everyone, this blogger has been at this shit for a long minute. I’m taking a fucken break. Please try not to be huge assholes while I’m gone. Oops, too late :)

  11. Lovin the BE says:

    Wow. Paul Elam and some of his followers have vowed to set rapists free no matter what the evidence.

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/government-tyranny/on-jury-nullification-and-rape

    • Ben Fenton says:

      This is precisely the essence of this manifestation of anti-feminism.

    • Varlam S. says:

      ‘Paul Elam and some of his followers have vowed to set rapists free no matter what the evidence.’

      That is a false statement.
      Elam notes the Innocence Project’s documentation of ~200 cases of sex crimes wherein conviction was later overturned on DNA evidence and the revelation in most of those cases that prosecutors failed to disclose to the defense exculpatory evidence as required by law. On the basis of these repeated failures of the criminal justice system to provide a fair trial in accordance with legally required due process protections, Elam suggests that one counter measure might be jury nullification.
      As to ‘no matter what the evidence’: Elam’s contention is that well documented and frequent prosecutorial misconduct – specifically in the context of rape trials – establishes that jurors often cannot actually know ‘what the evidence’ is.

      Note that he does not give a wholehearted endorsement of that tactic. Rather he regards it as extreme and undesirable, only advocating it as a last resort to be used in the context of a demonstrably corrupt justice system. Even then he includes the caveat that convincing physical evidence establishing connection between the defendant and the attack would justify a finding of guilt.

      The proper argument against his position is this:
      If one feels that one cannot be an impartial judge of the facts – b/c one believes the criminal justice system to be unable or unlikely to provide a fair trial – then one ought not serve on a jury to begin with (particularly as this further undermines the credibility of the justice system). Additionally, one is asked during jury selection, under oath, if one can be impartial. To lie about this is to commit another crime – perjury.

      It is easy, but unwise, to oversimplify matters for the sake of sensationalized condemnation of those whom we disagree with.

      • Ben Fenton says:

        While I generally agree with your analysis, it baffles me that people attempt to separate Paul Elam’s The Happy Misogynist and other anti-female works, from the site False Rape Society. Clearly, Elam’s beef is with women and not with the criminal justice system, or he would not work so hard to diminish the former and attempt to blame the so-called criminal justice system’s inequities on feminists and female power. Let’s not forget that Elam has poisoned the discourse with his hateful and patriarchal rantings. His intentions are anything but pure–or even proper. Therefore, he cannot be given credibility in this matter and should not be offered a platform anywhere. It is simply specious to point to one or two untouchable works and pretend that this is Elam’s ideology. It is not.

      • Lovin the BE says:

        Actually, my statement is not false at all. If Paul Elam, and any of those in the comments who agreed, sit on a jury trial, they have vowed to vote not guilty no matter what the evidence. In every story I read in the future in which the accused is voted not guilty, I will wonder if there was an MRA on the jury who voted not guilty in the face of evidence of guilt.

        And about those 200 cases that have been overturned due to lack of DNA evidence. In some of those cases the persons have been found factually innocent. In others, they have not. Exonerated does not mean factually innocent. And lack of DNA evidence does not mean innocence either. There are several reasons why there may be no DNA evidence at a rape crime scene – especially in cases that occurred 15 years ago or more. DNA evidence may have not been preserved in an investigation conducted before DNA technology was widely used. The offender may have worn a condom and left no semen – which is not unusual at all. Another reason a person may not be retried when a conviction is overturned – the person may have already served most of the sentence. That a conviction was overturned and the person was not retried does not mean that person has been declared innocent. Witnesses die, are ill, cannot be located, or refuse to participate in a new trial. Of course, defense attorneys and advocates for exonerated persons like that most people don’t understand that exonerated does not mean innocent. There are millions of dollars in it for them even in cases where an exonerated person has not been proved to be factually innocent and they have much to gain by misleading the public. The bottom line – not all of those 200 people are innocent. Not even close.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          That’s what bothers me most about MRAs; they conflate exoneration or lack of a trial with innocence. I wonder how many commenters over at FRS that pose as or even think of themselves as falsely accused are actually not at all innocent. Many MRAs believe that it is not rape if, in the middle of sex, a person says, “stop” or “no,” and they keep going against that person’s wishes. This is just one example of the many scenarios where someone feels “wrongly-” or “falsely accused,” but in fact are guilty of sexual assault.
          My point is that until MRAs have a firm grasp on what constitutes guilt or innocence, they will fail to understand sexual violence and continue to deny the existence of rape culture.

  12. Lovin the BE says:

    Oh…looky here…a website (blog) called “The Happy Misogynist” with a big pic of a younger “Paul Elam” on it. http://thehappymisogynist.blogspot.com/

    Maybe he just forgot about it and isn’t lying.

  13. Ben Fenton says:

    Here I want to convey to the public the desperation of the False Rape Society and their willingness to employ underhanded tactics to advance the cause of making rape easier for men to get away with.

    Today, the FRS scoured their roster and had one of their allies, an attorney, come to this page to debate me. This would be perfectly acceptable in some respects, even though I am clearly outmatched here in regards to debate about the legal system.

    But rather than Ms (or Mrs) Sandolval come to the page, identifying herself as an attorney, and engage in straight debate, she decided to bait me into a debate about rape trial clearances without identifying herself as an attorney.

    This is clearly a, I hate to say it, gotcha! moment. If the FRS cannot engage in a clear debate, they will use deception to bait-and-switch, because their entire pathology is not one of truth and fact, but of undermining confidence in the persons they target.

    Allow me to state my case again, so you MRAs may clearly understand my position and hence debate my actual position:
    1. False rape accusation is wrong.
    2. False rape accusation pales in comparison to unconvicted and unreported rapes.
    3. Rape culture exists regardless of the denials of those who benefit from its existence.
    4. Perhaps most importantly, any organization or movement that claims to be acting in the interest of all men would do these things: address male-on-male false accusations of rape, address prison rape, address marginalized men such as homeless men, the repression of men of color and male children who are victims of molestation.
    5. Any organization which claims to be acting solely to reduce the rate of false rape accusations would have an interest in educating men about rape culture, and most importantly would not engage only in cases that involve a female person. Here that we see that women are the target of FRS’s functions, not men.
    6. I will remove this entire post and never address FRS again if the FRS can show that it has advocated for a man in a single case that did not involve a female-bodied person.

    Engage.

    • M says:

      There have been cases mentioned on FRS where the false accuser was male, or where the victim was female (usually a teacher). It just so happens that most false rape accusations are female-on-male, just as most rapes are male-on… well, the primary gender of victims is debatable. There’s little point in a man falsely accusing anyone of rape considering very few people take the rape of men seriously.

    • It’s Ms Sandolval

      I’m not married. I’m a lesbian actually. Though I do hope to have the right to marry my partner one day. I assume you support gay rights?

      • Ben Fenton says:

        I’d be a fool and a total jerk if I didn’t support gay marriage.

        This conversation has become unsettlingly reasonable.

        I don’t think you’re an asshole, but you associate with assholes. (Yes, I know swear words are less than flattering.) Therefore, I have to question the very real disparity between our tone of conversation one hour ago and now. When someone reasonable jumps in and I’m in battle with a bunch of unreasonable dood-bros are in kill mode, I will still be on kill-mode when I respond. That said, if I was unnecessarily terse and dismissive, those are the circumstances that perpetuated my (warranted) attitude. Also, referring to feminists as a monolithic culture is a sure way to piss one of us off.

        Please consider disassociating with the FRS and joining a real men’s advocacy group, that is not dedicated to undermining the ability of women to have their rapes taken seriously.

  14. Catalogue says:

    Ben made the false accusation that FRA and the MRM are “trying to undermine all women’s credibility in regards to sexual violence.”.

    The reality here is that they are advocating for those falsely accused. and its you that’s doing damage to the credibility of victims, and feminism – by liberally throwing false accusations relating to rape and abuse around the internet.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      They are pushing the idea that when a woman reports rape, she’s probably lying. That is all. A true men’s advocacy organization would address prison rape, father’s rights, and advocate for homeless and marginalized men. You guys attack women. That is all.

      • Catalogue says:

        “They are pushing the idea that when a woman reports rape, she’s probably lying. That is all.”

        This is yet another false allegation relating rape.

        “You guys attack women. ”

        This is another false accusation relating to abuse of women.

        Ben, you clearly believe that there are some social or professional rewards in store for you for making these false allegations relating to rape and abuse. Is that your idea, self promotion via, false accusations?

        “A true men’s advocacy organization would address prison rape, father’s rights, and advocate for homeless and marginalized men.”

        The mens movement does do all these things – the implication that it doesn’t, is yet another lie.

        You are just another feminist throwing serious false accusations and libel around.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          Your arguments are specious and weak. I have repeatedly stated, driven into the ground, the fact that I think that false accusations are immoral and a grave injustice. However, the function of the FRS and its affiliated sites, such as register-her.com, is not to help falsely accused men but to generate animosity toward women.

          “he mens movement does do all these things – the implication that it doesn’t, is yet another lie.” However, the FRS and its affiliated sites do not do these things, as I have stated repeatedly–it is clear that FRS and company do not represent legitimate men’s advocates and movements.

          As for the whole self-promotion allegation, this is in poor form.

          • Catalogue says:

            “However, the function of the FRS and its affiliated sites, such as register-her.com, is not to help falsely accused men but to generate animosity toward women.”

            There you go making false accusations of ill will towards women. That’s not an argument, that’s just the standard feminist routine – make a false accusation relating to violence, rape or misogyny, instead of addressing an actual issue or point. That’s why feminists are losing control of this debate.

            • Ben Fenton says:

              I’ve displayed the evidence for your dull mind to reject a dozen times. Your best response is “You’re a feminist.” You can’t say that pointing out attacks on women constitutes an attack on women and expect to be believed. Feminists are not losing control of anything; because we are not in control of anything. That is just another of the countless conspiracy theories that the man-babies are given to. Female power scares the living shit out of you, and it shows. You criticize me for allegedly making unfounded accusations in ill will, yet you say things like this:
              “Ben, you clearly believe that there are some social or professional rewards in store for you for making these false allegations relating to rape and abuse. Is that your idea, self promotion via, false accusations?”
              Case closed. You are a hypocrite.

  15. What’s wrong supporting men falsely accused of rape? They’re simply trying to bring attention to an issue many feminists have insisted doesn’t exist, the issue of false rape accusations and the harm that they cause.

    I fail to see what’s so objectionable about advocating for the presumption of innocence for men accused of rape, or pointing out the indisputable fact that some percentage of rape accusations are knowingly false. The feminist movement has done much to erode due process for men accused of rape (rape shield laws, the “no corroboration” standard, etc), and they’re simply trying to fight back against this unfortunate trend and advocate that due process not be further impinged.

    All of this is necessary in a feminist culture that still isn’t satisfied with ease with which a man can be convicted without evidence. They’re working furiously to further engorge the definition of rape by constricting the definition of consent and to ensure that accused persons receive even less legal protection than they already do.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      This is typical MRA mudslinging.
      First of all, there is not a feminist in the world that supports false accusations of rape. NO ONE is hurt more than women when women falsely accuse someone of rape.
      Yes, false rape accusation exists. A legitimate men’s rights organization/community/movement would focus on supporting men and providing legal, emotional and financial support to those men.

      However, the salient manifestation of men’s rights advocacy, what I colloquially refer to as the MRAs/PUAs/MGTOWs, are not at all concerned with making life better for men. They are solely concerned with, indeed obsessed with, only cases involving female accusers–never men raping men, never doing anything constructive. Only tearing women down, down, down. Casting all women as liars does nothing to make your movement seem legitimate, and you should oppose that. Perhaps you do.

      We do not live in a feminist culture. You perceive that because you are privileged enough not to be the target of male malice towards females. Your people are angry that concessions have been made, that rape is harder to do and get away with, and that male privilege and patriarchy are being threatened. The perception of living in a feminist culture is a product of isolated men, with isolated politics and isolated viewpoints, all finding each other in the safety of internet anonymity. None of the people who have come here, save Paul Elam (who I suspect didn’t know his name would be used or simply couldn’t avoid using it because he used my name and I called him on it) have used their names, and for good reason. Their views are malicious, and frankly they know that few, if any, women would ever want to be in the presence of these men if they were aware of these views. These views of women being conniving, evil, man-hating people (referred to by MGTOWs as “Western women”) simply reduce the dating pool for men and as such have to be expressed behind a curtain of secrecy.

      • Catalogue says:

        “First of all, there is not a feminist in the world that supports false accusations of rape.”

        Then why are you peppering the internet with false accusations relating to rape and abuse and why is there a feminist here supporting it?

        • Ben Fenton says:

          That is a silly misapprehension of what I said. I haven’t made false claims. Over and over with you, I have asked you to point to specific things that are false and you have failed and failed and failed again. It really is annoying.

          You are confusing the idea of a person accusing someone of rape and the idea of someone accusing rape-apologists of being rape-apologists. Know the difference.

      • You accuse me of mudslinging and then proceed to launch into an absurd ad-hominem attack characterized by vile and uninformed assumptions about me, my life, my views, and my motives?

        Do I even need to reply? Just a few points, perhaps.

        The problem isn’t that feminists explicitly support false accusations of rape. The problem is that feminists want to create a legal environment which would enable and facilitate false accusations of rape. Look at the maniacal assault that feminists have launched against due process on college campuses. Last year’s OCR letter has effectively enshrined a presumption of guilt for any male accused of sexual misconduct. Rape shield laws are another example. They improperly restrict a defendant’s ability to testify in his own defense, and bar defense attorneys from attacking the credibility of what is often the sole piece of evidence against the accused (the accuser’s testimony). Rape trials have the highest conviction rate of any serious crime, 67%. That’s more than double the conviction rate for murder trials. It’s not hard to see why this is so when a man can be convicted without any evidence outside of his accuser’s testimony, and when a man is statutorily forbidden to challenge said accuser’s testimony. If you know anything about criminal law, you will know that the only way to discredit witness testimony (a form of evidence) is to discredit the witness him/herself. Rape shield laws make any attempt to discredit the accuser’s testimony illegal. This effectively bars the defense from presenting any case at all, and it’s hardly surprising that such an extreme percentage of these cases result in conviction.

        Many feminists also have some pretty loony views on what kind of conduct actually constitutes “rape” in the first place. For example, the idea of sexual “coercion.” Which holds that a man is a rapist if he in any way “pressures” a woman to CONSENT to sex. This pressure can be anything from threatening to end a relationship, to simple nagging (“come on, don’t you love me?” etc), to unintentional environmental pressures. This idea would effectively make any attempt to negotiate sex within a relationship a felony offense. Some feminists even believe that sex should be seen as rape even when the woman does manifest consent, if that consent was given with reservations or mixed feeling of any kind.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          “Look at the maniacal assault that feminists have launched against due process on college campuses.” You’re right, it is harder for men to get away with raping people. Shucks. BTW Due process does not exist on college campuses, that is a function of government and criminal proceedings.

          “They improperly restrict a defendant’s ability to testify in his own defense, and bar defense attorneys from attacking the credibility of what is often the sole piece of evidence against the accused (the accuser’s testimony)” First of all, submitting hearsay–by attacking the credibility of the accuser–should absolutely be barred, or every rapist in the world would walk free simply by dragging the accuser’s name through the mud. You actually believe that attacking someone’s “reputation” (i.e. “This girl is a slut, bitch, fiend, yada yada”) isn’t ad hominem/personal attack, which you are so quick to repudiate on a blog–but not when it comes to legal proceedings? Haha, that’s rich. What you want is for rape survivors who are on trial to have some guy up there saying, “Well, she’s had sex with lots of guys, therefore she couldn’t have been raped.” You guys already say that stuff, all the time. “She shouldn’t have dressed that way, she shouldn’t have worn those shoes, she shouldn’t have looked at me that way,” and the list goes on.

          “Rape trials have the highest conviction rate of any serious crime, 67%.” I find that statistic highly questionable, and as usual MRAs don’t cite sources to verify (if they’re even credible.) However, if it’s true, then you have a serious misunderstanding of how prosecutors handle trials. If a case is not strong enough to take to trial, a prosecutor is quite obviously much more likely to throw it out. So few rape cases get reported in the first place, even fewer make it to trial–and the ones that are strong enough to go to trial therefore have a much higher conviction rate, because a prosecutor will not fuck with a rape case they think they’ll lose. Evidence in a rape case can be incredibly hard to obtain, for a thousand reasons. Most often the rapist is someone the survivor is closely associated with; it can take a while for her to decide that she wants to have your style of animosity directed at her.
          However, murders are both confessed and pleaded to exponentially more than rapes, as you should know, since you’re so educated on the subject. The likelihood of a killer admitting his crime or taking a plea bargain is higher than a rapist admitting his crime, among many other reasons because the evidence of a murder is likely to be much more solid–making confessions of murders, again, much easier to obtain in an initial interrogation.

          So the claim that rape trials result in higher convictions than murder trials in conviction rates is downright misleading, because it does not address plea bargain conviction rates, underreporting, etc. Rapes are drastically underreported, and anyone who has ever taken even an introductory criminal justice class knows this. Try looking at the FBI Uniform Crime Reports sometime. See what the feds have to say about your little manipulation and misrepresentation of data. They would say you don’t know what you’re talking about.

          “Many feminists also have some pretty loony views on what kind of conduct actually constitutes “rape” in the first place.” This is such a bullshit argument that you engage in. Nagging for sex isn’t a crime. Nagging for sex and then raping her when she doesn’t give express consent is absolutely a crime. Yes means yes, no means no, you get the picture.

          “negotiate sex”? To you it is too much of a burden to ask for permission to fuck someone. That is very telling. You guys reveal your whole deal here: you want to weasel your way into a drunk girls’ pants when she hasn’t said yes and can’t fight back. It’s called rape. This is the main reason why I call you guys rape-apologists. Because the goal is to make rape easier to get away with.

          “Some feminists even believe that sex should be seen as rape even when the woman does manifest consent, if that consent was given with reservations or mixed feeling of any kind.” Some people say, some people say… well some anti-feminists say that there is no such thing as rape. Just Google that. Does that mean that all anti-feminists think rape doesn’t exist? No. But, damn if most of you guys don’t hint at it.

          • Wow

            Thanks for demonstrating the fact that you know absolutely nothing about legal proceeding or what’s involved in witness cross-examination. Thank you for demonstrating your lack of reading comprehension skills as well.

            The point on sexual coercion doesn’t involve women who haven’t said “yes.” But rather women who HAVE said “yes,” but have consented for reasons the feminists deem unacceptable. Seriously, read my response again.

            • Ben Fenton says:

              No, I addressed exactly what you said. You said, “Some feminists say this and that” and I said “I’m not some fucking other feminist I’m me.”

              • Fair enough

                But the sexual “coercion” movement is gaining momentum within the feminist community. Why advocate against the basic rights of your sex like this? I’m a woman attempting to advocate for men and their interests, and you are a man taking the opposite position. I don’t understand your motives.

                Please explain them to me. I’m only trying to help you.

                • Ben Fenton says:

                  Help me? Please, you have presented yourself as somewhat rational until that statement. That is gross. We both know why you are here.

                  I absolutely agree with express consent, because unlike the men you advocate for, I know how to say, “Hey, can I touch you? Can I touch you here? There? Is this okay with you?” I don’t just thrust my hand down a person’s pants and act all surprised when she gets upset at me sexually assaulting her. I don’t get people drunk or see them drunk at a party and think, “Easy target.” I don’t predate upon women because I have a moral value system which is incompatible with those behaviors.

                  So that’s what upsets people about express consent. It might require we put some work into our cultural norms, and it also might interfere with date rapes and rapes at parties.

                  • You still don’t understand.

                    The sexual coercion movement has nothing to do with express consent. In fact, the movement believes that expressed consent can only be given under certain circumstances. If affirmative consent is given under circumstances the feminists don’t like, then they call the sex that follows rape. Regardless of the fact that the woman manifested consent at the time.

                    • Ben Fenton says:

                      This is a non-sequitur. You are arguing that the FRS’s function of disseminating resentment of rape laws and women is validated by unrelated beliefs held by someone, somewhere.

          • Rape shield laws don’t just prohibit a defender from calling a woman a “slut” et al. They also often bar relevant exculpatory evidence.

            I would strongly advise you to do some research on rape shield laws and what they actually proscribe. You seem to be buying into the popular misconception that rape shield laws exist simply to prevent a defender from calling a woman a skank or questioning what she was wearing that night, etc.

            • Ben Fenton says:

              Please give me an example of how this works.

              • Wikipedia is a great place to start.

                I believe they reference the New York v. Javonovic case. Which is a perfect illustration of how rape shield laws can frustrate the interests of justice.

                • Ben Fenton says:

                  I’ll look into the case. It still doesn’t mean that rape culture isn’t real. Still doesn’t make undermining the credibility of women in order to get your agenda across okay. Still doesn’t excuse the ties to misogynist groups the FRS has. Still doesn’t mean that there is a “culture of false rape.” Still doesn’t mean that a woman saying no halfway through doesn’t have the right to stop that sex, and call it rape if a guy doesn’t stop. Still doesn’t excuse the underhandedness of you baiting me into legal conversation without identifying yourself as an attorney, and thus much more equipped to argue over law and courts.

                  You seem to think that I’m like, “False accusations of rape are awesome!” No. Fuck that.

                  I’ve stated it a lot here. False rape accusation is a horrible thing. It doesn’t mean that your cause and associations are righteous. They are not.

                  Champion the cause of all men, not just the ones accused by women. Address rapes of men by men. Address father’s rights in court. Because from where I’m standing, this movement is nothing but a vehicle for anti-feminists to undermine the credibility of all women who are raped, with the malicious intent of making the patriarchy stronger and women more easy to victimize.

                  • I think we have more in common than you may think.

                    I’ve been a public defender long enough to see my share of outrages, but that doesn’t mean I don’t support justice for rape victims. I’ve seen men I’m certain were innocent (usually black) sent to prison on the most spurious of charges. I’ve also seem victim’s casually dismissed by the system without any serious consideration given to their allegations.

                    I just think there should be balance. Most studies indicate that between 8-10% of rape allegations are knowingly false. Let’s support victims and prosecute credible allegations to the fullest extent of the law. But at the same time, let’s ensure that accused men receive the due process and presumption of innocence that they are due. Artificially engorging the definition of rape and eliminating due process doesn’t help rape victims. It only serves to cast suspicion on rape survivors who do have a genuine complaint. Look at what aggressive anti-rape legislation has done to the culture of court martial within the military. Every rape charge is treated with suspicion thanks to the legislature’s insistence that ever allegation be pursued, no matter how spurious.

                    • Ben Fenton says:

                      All rape charges should be taken seriously. You sound so reasonable sometimes, but then you bust out with something denying the due process of the accusers. Sheesh.

                      Of course accused persons should get due process, in a nation with malicious courts and police that repress man, woman, transgender and transqueer alike. Where have I stated that they shouldn’t? You ran in here lobbing bombs at my misandry, but there was none, and you missed.

                      “Most studies indicate that between 8-10% of rape allegations are knowingly false. ” I’ll tell that to all of your comrades who come here stating that it is 40-60%. I agree that the entire thing should be approached in a reasonable manner. However, defining rape to exclude things that are rape is not reasonable. You will not convince me of anything but express consent.

                      I am unsure how a reasonable victims’ advocate, which I believe you generally want to be or are, can associate with the FRS. Have you seen register-her.com? A Voice for Men and its affiliate, “The Happy Misogynist”?

                      I just don’t understand how you can think that Paul Elam and this community of, I hate to say it, woman-hating fucking losers is interested in any way in justice. They despise women and especially sexual women. It’s all over this post, I link to their sites, I exposed their networks.

                      I’m going to ask that you post any new comments at the top so that we can have a little room, it is hard to read these long comments here at the bottom. Thank you.

          • “BTW Due process does not exist on college campuses, that is a function of government and criminal proceedings.”

            Actually this is completely false. The supreme court has repeatedly ruled that public universities have a constitutional obligation to provide some measure of due process in campus disciplinary hearings. The standards of proof at lower than that of a criminal court, but they still are meant to exist.

            OCR’s DCL has mandated that Universities lower the standard of proof to such an extent that they might as well not exist at all. The letter also mandates that Universities begin an investigation with the assumption that the “victim” is telling the truth and the accused is guilty. This is a perfect example of feminism agitating to obliterate due process for men accused of rape. If feminists had their way, there would be no due process and every accusation of rape would be treated as a conviction.

      • “You perceive that because you are privileged enough not to be the target of male malice towards females.”

        Oh, and for the record, I’M A WOMAN!

        I’m also a criminal attorney, a women’s rights advocate, and a supporter of the FRS.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          That’s very nice, Roberta. Suddenly, I have seen the light!

          I won’t question your motives. I bet they actually honorable. But you are ignoring the filth and tripe of the FRS. As I have explained, a legitimate men’s advocacy group would not be fetishizing false rape accusations in order to make rapes easier to do. Period.

          P.S. if what I’m saying isn’t threatening, why sic attorneys and such on me?

        • Ben Fenton says:

          Roberta, I have posted a comment at the top of the pile that you will find relevant.

      • M says:

        “NO ONE is hurt more than women when women falsely accuse someone of rape.”
        So the man who’s been expelled from school or fired from his job, thrown in prison (where the very crime he’s been falsely accused up may very well be perpetrated on him), and had his name marred for life isn’t “hurt”?

        I see where you stand.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          Do you think that a person wouldn’t trade all those things to have their rape never happen? You have not thought about this.

          • zarko says:

            This isn’t a zero-sum game.

            It’s rather simple:

            No woman should be raped. Period. Every actual rapist should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

            No man should be falsely accused of rape and then, as above: being expelled from school or fired from his job, thrown in prison (where the very crime he’s been falsely accused up may very well be perpetrated on him), and had his name marred for life. Period. Every actual false rape accuser should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

            It’s not about trading. It’s not about anything other than the two statements above.

          • M says:

            You didn’t answer my point. I wasn’t saying that being falsely accused of rape is WORSE than being raped. I was contesting your baseless assertion that women are harmed more by false rape accusations then men are.

            Your straw man is showing. Or should I say, “straw person”?

            • Ben Fenton says:

              It’s not a straw man to conclude that it is not women as a group’s fault that the legal system is dysfunctional. But the goal of FRS is to attack women for that dysfunction, instead of providing productive support for falsely accused men. Which, by the way, reminds me to ask the question: how exactly does the FRS determine which of the men it “advocates” for is falsely accused, and which one are rapists avoiding accountability?

              • zarko says:

                This is a good question. Most articles linked (other than the big popular ones like DSK that are in the media from day 1), are post-trial, or post-exoneration, which means the question was already answered. FRS does not deal with convicted rapists.

                In the case of the articles that deal with people still in the legal battle, which IMO are markedly fewer, FRS mostly points it out for the sake of information, but generally they only reach FRS if there are strong indicators pointing to a false accusation.

  16. Xia_nt says:

    People talk about the “rape culture.” as though we have a society where people are just getting raped left and right. We live in a culture where rape is viewed by the vast majority of the population as an evil that can’t be tolerated. And this right, however in this culture false accusers, and they do exist, are rarely held to task. As someone who is about equality, as any true feminist is, do you agree that destroying someones life\reputation should be a punishable offence?

    • Ben Fenton says:

      I believe that rape is wrong. I believe that false accusations are wrong. Falsely accusing someone of a crime is not sexual violence. They are not equal offenses.
      You state two falsehoods: one, rape culture isn’t real. I watch college men on my street harass women every party night (4-5 days a week.) I attend private support meetings for rape victims when I’m welcome. I have so many friends that have been raped and molested that it breaks my fucking heart. Rape culture is real. You won’t get permission from me to pretend otherwise.
      Two: there is such a thing as a culture of false accusers. You do not get to say that because false accusers exist, that there is a culture comprised of them. Rape culture has tangible evidence abounding. Your claim is paranoid, confirmation biased, correlation fallacy which exposes your uncritical thinking and tendency toward victim-blaming and rapist-excusing.
      I was once falsely accused of rape about ten years ago. Mistaken identity, I believe. Almost got beat up by 4 scary big bonehead doodz for something I didn’t do. You don’t see me pretending that I’m some kind of victim of an atrocious, oppressive machine made of feminists trying to destroy my right to rape or defend those who do from being held accountable.
      I’ve also been falsely accused of stealing by a dark-haired man. Does this mean that there is a “culture of false theft accusers” being waged by brunette men against blonde men?
      According to the Kanin study, a favorite of the MRAs:

      False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.

      So you see here, more evidence against the position that false rape accusations are a “culture” problem, and evidence that they are in fact a product of individualities.

      • Catalogue says:

        “So you see here, more evidence against the position that false rape accusations are a “culture” problem,”

        We live is a culture where people that advocate for the falsely accused are routinely attacked and have false accusations made against them (this blog post is just one example) and false allegations routinely go unpunished, the seriousness and frequency of false allegations is often played down.

        This indicates strongly that there is a culture in which false allegations are encouraged and protected.

  17. Fidel says:

    Ben,

    You are a liar. How could you be so blind?
    Predators?.

    Right …………

    • Ben Fenton says:

      One thing I am not blind to is the society I live in. What bothers me most is that you folks keep coming here and saying, “LIAR! LIAR!” and running away. Paul Elam even blocked my email! You guys are scared because your little fantasies about women being some monolithic group that wants to emasculate and reject you are being, not just challenged, but dismantled. The entire illusion falls apart. You are not oppressed, you are oppressors. The materials and websites you defend advocate for assumptions about the truth of a woman’s claim, whereas the only assumption that should be made is that a rape allegation should be taken seriously and investigated thoroughly. My friend, through the establishment of a culture of hatred toward female-bodied persons, you are defending the rapes of every woman whose rapist came to these MRA, PUA and MGTOW sites and was inspired to a dehumanizing and predatory ideology. This little “community” of rape-apologists is indeed composed of vermin of the lowest social order of humans.

      If this “community” was concerned about advocating for men, it would do so. Instead, the “community” attacks and dehumanizes women. That is why it is not a legitimate movement, and that is why I will contribute to its destruction through exposing it for what it really is. Take warning.

  18. (O_O) I’m just staring at the comments on this blog produced by the FRS apologists and I hate to have to realize that such ignorant assholes exist.

  19. “These are people who celebrate domestic violence and rape.”

    That is a lie, and you are a liar.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      Read MRA materials. It is absolutely true.

      • Catalogue says:

        You’re making more false accusations about rape and domestic violence.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          Cite the “false accusations.” Please stop evading.

          • Catalogue says:

            This is just one of the many false accusations relating to rape you have made on this page

            “(the mens movement is) trying to undermine all women’s credibility in regards to sexual violence.”.

            What you don’t seem to get is that its not those that advocate for the falsely accused that undermine women’s credibility in regards to sexual violence, its people that make false accusations about rape and abuse that do that, people like you.

      • Catalogue says:

        “These are people who celebrate domestic violence and rape.” “Read MRA materials. It is absolutely true.”

        Stop using false accusations of rape and abuse as a means to attack advocacy for the falsely accused.

        You’re a disgrace, and a typical on-line feminist.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          As I’ve said a profound number of times, I believe that advocacy for the falsely accused is fantastic. But the particular manifestation of the men’s movement that we are addressing here, the network of Men’s Rights Advocates, Pick-Up Artists and Men Going There Own Way, do not function to provide advocacy for the falsely accused. These groups, Paul Elam and his False Rape Society function to disseminate anti-female and anti-feminist propaganda and one-sided pieces that imply that women systematically employ false rape accusation as a means of empowerment.
          Note that it is not the False Rape Accusation Society; even the name of the FRS is a projection of Elam’s belief that all rape accusations are false and that a woman was not raped unless they get the government seal of approval. Meaning a woman whose rapist goes free was therefore never raped.
          A proper treatment would be to assume the innocence of both parties and not assume that the accusation NOR claim of innocence on the accused’s part is false. Further, Elam claims that rape is not a feature of our society and that women are lying about rape culture.

          These are the points you have failed to refute time and time again.

  20. Catalogue says:

    Well this is somewhat typical, feminists making false allegations relating to rape and abuse.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      Remember, according to you guys, all accusations are false. And this: http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamonds/2011/09/17/an-mra-speaks-on-rape/

      • Catalogue says:

        That’s one persons blog, and never at any point did they say all accusations are false.

        What are you doing here, making false accusations about rape and abuse in order to get attention for your blog?

        • Ben Fenton says:

          No, that’s what MRAs do. I expose the culture of hatred that is the manifestation of the men’s rights/misogyny movement. I absolutely respect legitimate men’s advocates and legal allies.

          I have made no false accusations about rape and abuse. You can’t name one because there is none.

          • Catalogue says:

            You have made many false accusations relating to rape, in this very thread you said.

            “Remember, according to you guys, all accusations are false”

            That’s a false accusation relating to rape that you made, on the internet. You have littered this page with one false accusation relating to rape and or abuse, after another.

            You are damaging not only the credibility of feminism, but the credibility of victims with you making false accusations relating to rape, and its apparently so normal to you, that you are unaware that you are doing it.

  21. Paul Elam says:

    Register-her.com does not publish information on men, and it does not publish information on women that is not already verified as a matter of public record. I would know this because I own it.

    There is no site called “The Happy Misogynist” and FRS does not attack women, only false rape accusers and false rape culture.

    A Voice for Men indeed does not speak for you, but rather about you. That voice comes from a team that includes a diverse group of individuals, including women, different races and different sexual orientations.

    You are a liar and a coward.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      http://www.youtube.com/user/TheHappyMisogynist

      Oh, good. So you only target women. Thanks for clearing that up. Now when I go to register-her.com and see the words RAPIST or KILLER splashed across some girls face, or the word BIGOT slapped onto a picture of some lawmaker you disagree with, I’ll feel a lot better.

      Here’s your email to me: “Dear Ben, don’t be such an asshole moonbat. I swear, the angriest, smuggest people on earth are radical feminist men. Wow!

      No, we don’t respond to smug moonbat blogs, Ben. We won’t even read it. We have real people who write to us with real problems, and I could spend every waking hour of every day and still not be caught up on my email. Sorry, but I don’t have time to go back and forth with someone who assumes we’re evil because we don’t buy into your loopy metanarrative that there are only five false rape victims.

      If you did read us, you’d know we are opposed to victim blaming. We never, ever, ever excuse a rapist. And no woman “asks” for it. That doesn’t mean that people shouldn’t be careful.

      We are also opposed to double standards. The story you cite is ridiculing the double standard where it’s OK to victim blame men who are falsely accused. See, you didn’t even understand the story — because, obviously, you are OK with victim blaming in some contexts, right, Ben?

      Grow up. What are you, like, 20 years old or something?”

      and me to you:

      What an incredibly sophisticated response.

      Of course you won’t read it. You are anonymous cowards on the interwebs. You can attack, but you can’t take it.

      You sure like the word “metanarrative” a lot, and calling people who disagree with you smug because they don’t lie about defending rapists is….smug!

      No. The quote I gave you is played straight. It is not some clever “metaanalogy” or “meta” anything. You think that a women who is raped was asking for it, and you don’t have the courage to back it up when called out on it.[see clarification in article, at bottom]

      You will never influence society with this hack blogging, smack-you-and-run-away stuff. You need to start standing up to your aggressors.

      I am your aggressor. At least fight back.

      and you back:“There, I’ve clarified that post you’ve mischaracterized. I know you’ll want to be accurate when you write about it.

      Let me put this as plainly as possible. We have falsely accused men who write to us and tell us our blog stopped them from committing suicide. We have real work to do. So take your fucking “I’m your aggressor” and shove it up your uber-feminist ass, you pathetic little boy, looking for me to give your vapid little blog a boost by mentioning it.

      I win.”

      and my response: “It is downright pathetic that you criticize me for smugness and hubris; yet every word you type drips with those qualities. I think that I have threatened you, perhaps by intellect but more likely because I have held a mirror up to your face and shown you–and the public–the monster that you are.

      Men who are falsely accused of rape-or anything for that matter do need advocates (why aren’t you working on amnesty for falsely accused murderers? Probably because there wouldn’t be any women to blame.) What they don’t need is a woman-hating prick like you presuming to speak for them and posturing and making a bad name for them on the internet.

      You win? I’ll be sure to let the people you presume to represent know, it’s all just a game for the FRS guys to get their rocks off. Pathetic.”

      For all the world to see, Paul Elam (or whatever). Show me the lies.

      • Paul Elam says:

        False accusations are very rare coming from men. The problem is largely women. I have never emailed you that I remember. I KNOW I never sent anyone what you just posted.

        I am not anonymous. Paul Elam is my real name. I live in Houston.

        Show you the lies? There is nothing but lies in everything you are posting. Done here now. No time for this kind of crap. but was glad to give you some of the attention you clearly crave.

        • Ben Fenton says:

          Paul: Above I definitively prove, once again, that you have absolutely no problem lying.I’ve posted the emails you sent me–”(I’ve just clarified that post you mischaracterized even more by quoting one of our old posts on this very issue — you really know nothing about my blog, do you?)” Sound familiar?

          This is precisely why you keep coming here, slinging some mud, and running away.

          Your entire pathology is clear, in every word which drips with the loathing of female power. You are unable to cop to even the most obvious lies you’ve put forth. It’s no wonder that you can’t point out a lie from me on this post. The only lies belong to you.

          I don’t crave attention any more than the common blogger. However, it is clear that attention and transparency are precisely what you fear.

    • Sojourner Truth says:

      No, he’s not. He’s speaking a truth. He’s pointing out that you lot are just a small number of cranks, feeding of the sense of righteous indignation you spout all over each other.

      Your “false rapes” are not. Your vast confraternity isn’t. Your “courage” is a sham. Your examples (Heigel… really? That was ‘misandry’”) are nonsense. Your standards are hypocritical. Your moral values are reprehensible.

      As a man, I repudiate you. As human being I abjure you. As a moral creature I loathe you. As a citizen I dispute you. A someone with a conscience I speak out against you.

      As a person with a working intellect I know that you will fail, but I also know that you might cause no small amount of tsuris to others on your way to an unmarked grave, with no mourners and no memory past that of a foolish crackpot who wasted his time abusing others.

      So I point and laugh, and encourage others to do the same.

  22. Sharculese says:

    ugh, sorry. the false rape society will show up to harass pretty much anybody who is the least bit critical of them. it happened to another blog i read last week.

    if its any consolation, theyre basically completely incompetent, so theres only so much damage they can do.

    • Ben Fenton says:

      It is certainly good to know, thank you. However, I hope I haven’t given the impression that I feel like a victim. I don’t. I would aggressively pursue and smoke out these guys, wherever they hide. On second thought, I’d probably keep the smoke to myself ;)

    • Catalogue says:

      Sharculese

      Can you back up your false accusation of harassment?

      • Ben Fenton says:

        And here note that “Catalogue” has exemplified the pathology of the entire MRA milieu by not just assuming, but asserting that the accusation of harassment is false—based entirely on assumptions and a lack of evidence. Here we see the default position that when a woman makes a claim of any sort that doesn’t jive with the MRAs, they are automatically labeled liars. This extends to accusations of rape and sexual violence.

        These are not critical thinkers and men’s advocates we are dealing with. These are ignorant misogynists who want to destroy women and exacerbate the culture of rape that we live in.

        • Catalogue says:

          This is the false accusation she made.

          “ugh, sorry. the false rape society will show up to harass pretty much anybody who is the least bit critical of them. it happened to another blog i read last week.”

          I’m not assuming that it’s false, I know it to be false because I have seen how FRS conduct themselves. Were she making an accusation based in reality as opposed to using false accusations relating to abuse as a rhetorical devise, it would not be false, however she. like you is using false accusations relating to abuse as a rhetorical devise.

          And then you go on to make more false allegations relating to abuse and rape when you say

          “These are ignorant misogynists who want to destroy women and exacerbate the culture of rape that we live in.”

          This is the false rape culture that FRA’s and MRA’s talk about in action.

          • Catalogue says:

            edit – I should have written “false accusations” where I wrote “false allegations”.

            • Ben Fenton says:

              So once again: it is false because you say so. And yet, look around you. On this blog, there are people coming to spew a bunch of nonsense and scream “YOU LIE! YOU LIE!”

              You are ignorant. You despise women who report their rapists. You exacerbate the culture of rape. I will not apologize for my opinion.

              Show me what the MRAs have done to make life better for women. Then I’ll consider the claim that MRAs are not against women, sexual women, working women, and all the other types of women you attack.

              MRAs do not seek to make life better for men. That is why they only obsess about things that involve women. Far more men are victimized by prison rape than false accusers. You guys never lift a single finger to help men who are raped by men. That would damage the illusion that you hold that men are inordinately oppressed by women, that sexual violence is a myth, and it would force you to do something other than trying to undermine all women’s credibility in regards to sexual violence.

              • Catalogue says:

                So you are arguing that the false accusation of harassment that was made by that other feminist isn’t false, by making multiple false accusations relating to rape and abuse.

                • Ben Fenton says:

                  Stating that the salient manifestation of MRAs is comprised of misogynists isn’t a lie. It’s an observation.

                  • Catalogue says:

                    Ben

                    You are littering the internet with false accusations relating to rape and abuse of women, while at the same time accusing others of damaging the credibility of real victims, because they advocate for the falsely accused.

                    You are in quite a muddle here.

                    • Ben Fenton says:

                      Fantasize all you want. This MRA movement in the manifestation I am battling against is not an advocacy group, it is an anti-female attack group. Period. Show me evidence otherwise. Show me a case that doesn’t involve a woman.

              • M says:

                “Show me what the MRAs have done to make life better for women.”

                Show me what feminists have done to make life better for men.

                • Ben Fenton says:

                  That’s not a feminists job. Feminists do not exist to please the whims of the patriarchy. Sorry bout that.

                  • Catalogue says:

                    Ben, feminists perpetuate the patriarchy.

                    http://www.genderratic.com/?p=384

                    You perpetuated patriarchy when you said

                    ““Show me what the MRAs have done to make life better for women.”

                    Ben, women are not children, and its not the obligation of men to look after them.

                    • Ben Fenton says:

                      The article you site is a case of massive projection. I invite readers to go there, point and laugh. “Male Supremacy.” Not an assumption, historical fact. From a patriarchal view, things such as women’s voting rights and women having careers are infringements on male supremacy. This is why feminism threatens the patriarchy.
                      “Androcentrism.” This claim stems from the fact that hard work and engaging in politics is viewed by the author as the domain of men, reinforcing the absurdity of the first claim.
                      “Male Disposability.” The theory of the insecure.

                      “Ben, women are not children, and its not the obligation of men to look after them.” It is the obligation of men to hold each other accountable for rape culture and the patriarchy. I shouldn’t even have to say that telling other men not to rape is not a bad thing.

                  • M says:

                    “Show me what the MRAs have done to make life better for women.”

                    That’s not an MRAs job. MRAs do not exist to please the whims of the matriarchy. Sorry bout that.

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